OK, so before you read even a word of this here response, take some time and read Jeanne V. Bowerman’s piece from yesterday (if you haven’t already) over at SCRIPT MAGAZINE. It’s important you have her perspective, because you’ll need it to understand why I’m shredding it so harshly. So go take a gander.
Done? OK, fun. Here we go.
First and foremost, let me get this out of the way, because by the time I’m finished with this I know I’m not going to feel like being nice anymore: I like Jeanne. I like #scriptchat. I think, for the most part, she genuinely wants to help other writers, and I think she has her heart mostly in the right place. I think she’s a smart, capable woman, and I believe that she believes the things she’s saying in the above referenced article.
Unfortunately, I also think that her conclusions – and, more importantly, how she arrived at those conclusions and the manner in which she opined them – are a gigantic pile of naive bullshit. Probably borne of a measure of frustration and regret.
The first major mistake that she makes is that she makes not a single delineation between any of the gaggle of “screenwriting experts” out there. In this piece, pro/working screenwriters are apparently offering their knowledge and expertise at he same level as those who have written screenwriting books or offer consulting “services” for hundreds and often thousands of dollars. This alone negates any worth the article might have had in the first place. I’ve spent enough time explaining why (though I will hit the essential beats in a bit), but suffice to say: this is such a drastically wrongheaded conflation, and a deeply insulting one to me. And it is REALLY hard to insult me. I’m low on the totem pole in the profession of screenwriting, but I’m LEAGUES ahead of any of these “consultant” assholes when it comes to writing, story, development, and the ins and outs of this industry. As are my colleagues. Let that be made perfectly clear.
The second – and FAR worse – mistake that she makes is, I believe, a pointed and intentional one: she ties the notion of reading screenwriting books and paying for script consulting to a writer’s PROCESS. She often goes out of her way to make this about YOU, the writer, and how those of us who advise against script “consultants” are just up and screwing YOU out of learning how to write. Let’s lock on to this for a moment.
To quote one of her major points: “No one knows anything other than what worked for them.” Emphasis hers. This is a total crock of shit. Literally all you have to do is ask a screenwriter, “Hey, how’d you break in? What worked for you? What should I do? What should I avoid?” And they’ll tell you. And then you’ll know. We’re not just offering advice in a vacuum here, bouncing our own voices off the walls so we can hear their dulcet melodies. We are preaching, TOGETHER, something that we believe in because we have SHARED experiences. So while I or Travis Beacham or John August or Justin Marks or Crag Mazin or John Gary or any of the countless other pro writers who speak on this topic time and again can only speak for ourselves about what works for us individually IN THE PHYSICAL ACT OF OUR OWN WRITING, we can very much collectively champion actions and philosophies that we took to in the days before anyone paid us for said writing – and we can especially call out those we see taking advantage of aspiring writers today. We learned not only from those of us who were still struggling to get through the gate, but from those who crashed it before us and those who cared about us and looked out for our best interests as we came up. To a scribe, we absorbed advice and strengthened and discarded certain notions as we moved forward, learned and evolved.
And again, to a writer, we all come down on the same side of this issue: spending money on “script consultants” and “coverage services” is a LOSING ENDEAVOR. At best, it will separate you from some hard-earned money and not make you a better writer. At worst, it will separate you from buckets of hard-earned money and will actually cause your writing to regress as you develop bad habits and take terrible, terrible advice to heart.
Now I’ve spoken about this many times, and I’m loathe to do it again, but just in case you’ve never heard it before, I want you to pay attention. It’s important to understand and appreciate WHY we believe script “consulting” is a joke, lest you ken that I have some unnecessary vendetta against these people. Please trust me: it’s a very necessary vendetta. And the explanation of such is very simple:
These people don’t know what they’re doing, and they’re charging exorbitant amounts of money to pass that total lack of knowledge and acumen onto you.
Go onto any script “consulting” or coverage website. Look up the people who run the “business”. Read their stories. You’ll find the same thing everywhere: vagueness and obfuscation. They sold a script, but leave out the title or fail to mention to whether or not it was to an accredited, viable outlet. They’ll claim to have worked at studios and production companies you recognize, though they’ll never say in which position (or they’ll label themselves “consultants” to firms and films, but never elucidate on that, because it’s a fucking wank of a term that means nothing and is often made up out of whole cloth). They’ll claim to have “worked on” certain films, but never detail in what capacity. Then there will be a laundry list of important-sounding accolades, awards and recognitions, none of which has the first thing to do with understanding scripts, screenwriting or development. Then they will list breathless testimonials from people you’ve never heard of and writers who are SO HAPPY WITH THEIR WORK, yet shockingly have not sold a single script to anyone anywhere.
Most of these people had a least some murky experience in the entertainment industry, and I always ask writers who are considering paying them for their services one simple question: if they were any good at what they did, wouldn’t they still be doing it? In case you thought that was rhetorical, allow me to answer: yes. Yes they would.
And here’s the difference in the way I’m aware of these people and the way Jeanne is, again in her own words:
“Certain experts state the odds of breaking in are miniscule (sic) and most of us will never break down the doors, let alone break in. Screenwriting is FREE, just like breathing in oxygen, so we shouldn’t buy books or hire consultants to give us any help or advice. Basically, it’s like saying to someone who stops and asks for directions, ‘Sorry, but you don’t know whether I really live here or not, so why should you trust me for directions?’ Don’t buy a GPS, because those cost money! Don’t invest in a map because who the hell created it? Forget buying gas… it’s too expensive! But hey, have fun trying to find your destination!”
This is such a childlike misconstruction of the advice that I and others give that it can only feel intentionally misleading. I can’t think of a single writing pro who has ever said that you shouldn’t seek out help or wisdom, or that you should only listen to one source when you’re trying to gather information, or that there’s only one way or the highway. To even insinuate such a thing is, to my mind, flat out irresponsible. To twist our words and our intentions in order to cloud the advice we’re given is, frankly, disgusting to me. To wit: all I’m EVER trying to to say is that most screenwriters who broke through and had fruitful professional careers rarely-to-never paid someone to consult upon, analyze, critique or represent their work. CAN you do any of those things? Sure, you totally can. But our goal in bringing this stuff up is to SAVE you money and to SAVE you getting into bad habits. To use Jeanne’s own analogy, using a script “consultant” is like needing a guide to get around New York City, but paying someone to traipse you around Albuquerque while assuring you it’s the Big Apple.
That’s what script “consultants” do. Their goal is to make as much money off of you as possible by convincing you that if you just spend a few more dollars on THIS, you’ll find yourself walking through the Gates of Hollywood. Except you’re not near the gates; you’re in a hyperloop of upsell, and the charlatan has control over the spin.
At this point, perhaps you’re asking yourself, “Geoff, you’ve used a lot of words and you like to claim things, but seriously, why should I trust you? You appear merely a drunk, loud troll.” WELL I AM A DRUNK LOUD TROLL. But I’m also several other things:
1. Not trying to take your money in any way, shape or form.
2. Formerly a reader for New Line Cinema for 4.5 years, in which time I read close to (and perhaps more than) 5,000 scripts, both for work and my own education.
3. Someone who bought one screenwriting book (SCREENPLAY by Syd Field) at the behest of his mentor who argued that it should be osmosed and ultimately discarded as a formula for writing a screenplay but catalogued as a basic conceptualization of three-act structure.
4. A working screenwriter currently within the studio system who consults with other working writers and offers support, knowledge and advice to aspiring writers. Often, and in different capacities. Again: for free.
5. A veteran of 11 years in the film industry, all-told.
And here I am, telling you that you CAN spend money on books and services if you want to do that, but that I and SO many others are proof positive that you have *exactly* as good a chance at breaking in if you NEVER SPEND A DIME.
Compare me to Jeanne, whose qualifications in writing and development I asked for on Twitter earlier today. She offered the following:
1. Editor of SCRIPT MAGAZINE.
2. Has had one screenplay optioned (details not given).
3. Has adapted a book, SLAVERY BY ANOTHER NAME (details on status of the project not given).
So: one script optioned, one of nebulous status, Editor of an online screenwriting magazine. No development experience. And while it costs nothing to read Jeanne’s column and SCRIPT is a free online outlet, it’s worth pointing out that SCRIPT is run by The Writer’s Store, which sells Final Draft Software (the least expensive version of which is $99 at the time of this writing) and also sells books, screenwriting “tools” and minutiae, and runs something called Screenwriter’s U, a for-profit gaggle of online tutorials and screenwriting “courses”.
(IMPORTANT EDIT: I wrote erroneously earlier that The Writer’s Store produces Final Draft software; however is merely a retail outlet for, but does NOT produce, Final Draft. Not sure how I managed to slip that in there other than that I’m an idiot; thanks to Phil Galasso for the heads-up and apologies for the error.)
(FULL DISCLOSURE: I like and use Final Draft software and have advocated for its purchase by any screenwriter who can afford it. Some writers use other programs. Anything that helps you automatically format a screenplay – so that you don’t have to do it manually – works.)
Jeanne has her own website. Interesting that she chose to offer this advice not there, but on the SCRIPT site, where there are multiple ads for screenwriting books and services embedded in her piece itself that…hey, cost money. Oh, and though she made a bunch of vague accusations about “popular screenwriters” with “cult followings”, she never mentioned anyone by name and never linked to a specific instance of impropriety or or perceived slight. However, she did link to several other SCRIPT articles (and ONLY to other SCRIPT articles) that had little to nothing to do with the matter at hand. When I asked Jeanne why she didn’t “call out” directly the individuals she was so offended by (after describing them as “unacceptable, juvenile and unprofessional”), she told me that’s “not her style” and that the piece was in response to an attack on two SCRIPT writers, though she failed to link to said attack in the response itself, so we have zero context on which to validate her claims.
Sorry, but that’s not fucking good enough. At best it’s disingenuous and at worst it’s a sad little hit-and-run. If you’re going to admonish working writers and flat-out call them unprofessional, have the decency and courage to do so with specifics and evidence, not thinly-veiled potshots and rhetoric. Especially in a column that has the temerity to call itself “Balls of Steel”.
Make no mistake: Jeanne is”calling out” writers like Craig Mazin, myself and others who preach that a screenwriter’s education can and should be free and that you needn’t spend money to put yourself in a position to break in. But not only does she do that – and, again, vaguely and insultingly – but she doubles down with THIS crap: “Can you learn about writing without spending money? Absolutely! But that doesn’t mean every writer can learn without help. Don’t judge those who want to educate themselves in a more traditional way…I simply want you to do what is best for you and not feel judged for doing it. Use your energy, time and even money to please your vision.”
Yes, that’s it! Jeanne, she of next-to-no practical experience in the entertainment industry who works for an outlet that relies on the advertising of the costly screenwriting implements, products and services of its parent company is JUST LOOKING OUT FOR YOU. The implication being that those of us professional writers who give of our time and advice freely because we want you to avoid wasting money and falling into bad habits as a writer are JUDGING YOU for the choices you’ve made.
Very few things disgust me. THAT fucking disgusts me. I have NEVER seen an instance of a pro writer offering his or her advice to an aspiring writer shaming or mocking or judging them simply because they bought books or used a service. I’ve seen a lot of lowbrow attempts at character assassinations in this business, but that’s one of the most pathetic.
“Educate themselves in a more traditional way.” Give me a motherfucking break.
Look, I don’t have the time or patience to address every dismal thing in Jeanne’s piece and I’m fast running out of an interest in keeping this civil. You can read what she wrote and judge for yourself. But let me beat the drum again:
You do not have to pay for your education as a writer. The vast majority working screenwriters did not (a fact that should stop this discussion in its tracks on its own). You do not have to pay for access to Hollywood, and the vast majority of the people claiming you do are lying to you. The ones that tell you THEY can get you there for a fee are lying to you even harder. But all I can do is make you aware of that, tell you of my experiences and share the wisdom I’ve gleaned while on my way up. I’m not some pampered A-list scribe who’s disconnected from the realities of the industry. I’m a medium talent who’s fighting to keep a relevant career going. But I’m in the game. I’m not lurking outside it, lobbing bitter, grotesquely false invective, desperate to be taken seriously. And I’m not asking a goddamned thing of you – other than that you appreciate that the advice I give comes from eleven years practical experience.
If that doesn’t float your boat, godspeed. There are plenty of wannabes, false prophets and used car salesman out there who will be happy to pick you out of my wake. And for just a small fee (in the grand scheme of things!), they’ll be able to explain to you what I couldn’t.
Brilliant article Geoff, thank you I couldn’t agree with you more. Cheers!
While reading the article for the first time, I couldn’t help but think “Wow, wait until Geoff, Justin and Mazin get wind of this.” Thanks for taking the time to compose your response in this format.
You’ve shoveled this shit before, and thank you for doing it again.
A non-pro calling pros unprofessional, and you do the comparison. That is comedy.
Yeah… when Jeanne dropped a strong recommendation of pitch-fests into one of her columns, and I politely suggested that they were pretty much useless–and also pointed out that Script magazine was involved with the sponsorship of a pitchfest so wasn’t that kind of a conflict of interest? She responded with a FIRM defense of pitch-fests as useful to one’s career, and claimed her recommendation in her Script column was completely unrelated to what Script was sponsoring.
Haven’t taken her seriously since. I think she deleted my comment, too.
Allow me to say, unequivocally, that Pitchfests are a complete and total wank. All you’d have to do is spend five minutes talking to anyone in the industry who’s ever been to one. They couldn’t give a fuck – they go to get wined and dined and have a vacation paid for. And if that doesn’t happen, they send their assistants. Not even fucking joking.
SCRIPTMAG – while free tor read – is the arm of a for-profit enterprise that feeds of Pitchfests and the like. This, therefore, hardly surprises me.
Thank you so much for this note about pitchfests (not to mention the original post about consultants). I’m still learning the ropes and sifting the truth from the bullshit and I’d yet to really look into the legitimacy of pitchfests. I’d considered volunteering for the upcoming GAPF at the end of May, just to see what they’re about before actually attending. I definitely don’t care to waste my time on anything that isn’t worthwhile though.
Thanks for this Geoff. I’m the sot of bottom-feeder fledgling screenwriter you’re on about and I can appreciate your cantor and the fact that it stems from years of fucking frustration. I am following scriptmag and the writer’s store and crap like that cause sometimes they do let on some helpful practical info, but I am very much aware that my chances of making it even to the gates of Hollywood are slim at best, given many factors, primarily not living in the US. Maybe this distance, literal and not, is a good thing. But allow me to just say one thing, not in defense of Ms Bowerman, but from my tiny experience, that every time I’ve landed in a screenwriter’s forum/group I felt like I was wasting my time, my mind unraveling, getting hopelessly tangled in semantics, reading people defend and argue petty difference that shouldn’t make one single god damn difference, and invariably I always ended up leaving. So, at least she’s got a point there, let’s give Caesar his due. I’ve yet to find some place where all you enlightened gurus gather actually (no sarcasm intended) so I can just shut up, sit down and watch/read/hear/learn. If not for the scriptmags of the world, at best all a person like me can get is a group of other blind newbies bouncing against the walls. So, I hear you, and your insight is indeed not only helpful but terribly uplifting from where I stand, and thanks again for it. Sorry for the block-of-butter here.
First of all, let’s make one thing abundantly clear: it’s OK to agree with Jeanne on however much you want/need to. I’m just here to present an opinion from the perspective of someone working this industry day-in and day-out as a vocation. On top of that, I’m sure there’s content that’s valuable within SCRIPTMAG.
As far as screenwriting groups…I hear you. They can be cloistered and in-fighty and occasionally border on useless. It depends on the group and the forum. But even in those cases…living outside the US and on fresh legs as far as writing, they’re still your best shot. Even wading through all the bullshit you’ll find invaluable wisdom for where you are currently on the path. Not sure if you’ve ventured over to The Black List yet, but the community over there is vibrant and engaged and, as far as I can tell, generally positive. But if you’re looking for a forum where the pros hang out, I’m sorry to tell you there really isn’t one. There’s just not enough time in the day for most of us anymore. I’d encourage you to check out podcasts like SCRIPTNOTES and such and go from there. Try to focus on stuff that comes from writers currently working. They’re not the only ones in the entire world that know what they’re doing, but the outliers are too difficult to police re: their expertise. And you want info that’s going to HELP. In reality, the landscape isn’t as bleak as you imagine. And besides, reading every script you can get your hand on is going to do more for you than all the podcasts and blogs and forums combined.
You are missing something. While Jeanne tends to be a little too kind to anyone who claims to have knowledge, I’m legit. I won Nicholl and Austin, placed in America’s Best and Chesterfield, have worked with Columbia Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, Universal Pictures, and others. I have multiple produced works. I am an exemplary teacher and mentor. And I am exhausted by the perpetual bullshit message, “Anyone giving you information is wrong.” I’m not wrong. I’m one of the best. Three Nicholl winners have come out of my workshops. Austin Film Festival Winners, Warner Brothers winners, there’s a fucking streamline of winners coming out of my workshops. And that doesn’t even count the working writers coming out of my classes and workshops. So yes, is Jeanne idealistic? Sure. She won’t say anything ugly about anyone regardless of merit. But I am here, and I am putting writer after writer into the ring. Because I’m talented not just as a writer, but as a teacher. And I’m really tired of people saying that does not have merit.
Ugh, Max.
Your reputation is well known to those in the film business. As a cautionary tale. I needn’t document it here, but suffice to say I can’t imagine a legit industry professional would vouch for you at this point.
That in mind…thank you for proving my point. Your comment is full of bluster and absolutely no tangible information. It’s braggy, it’s bombastic, it’s vague, and it’s deeply insecure. It is every last thing I claimed about script “consultants” who have washed out of the industry. It feels so weird that you’d confirm it all so readily. Almost like…you didn’t read anything I wrote? But, by all means, if you are what you say you are, take a few moments to clarify for those aspiring writers who might be looking for honest, trustworthy, professional guidance:
–You have one produced credit. What are some of the other projects that you worked on?
–Why have you had no produced credits since 1997? Why do you have no projects currently listed as in development and no current projects you’re attached to as a writer?
–Why have you not had a tangible connection to the industry as a writer or producer (outside of a nebulous short film) for 15 years?
–Who are some of the writers – specifically – who would vouch for the efficacy of your “workshops”?
–What projects have these writers produced? What projects do they have in development? Where are they represented?
–How did your “workshops” and “consultancy” DIRECTLY impact said writers? How, DIRECTLY, did they lead to them selling scripts, being hired for assignments and/or gaining relevant representation?
Let’s start there and work forward.
Never once did I say, “Anyone giving information is wrong.” That’s laughable, but it’s a typical non sequitur claim from your brigade. All I’ve said is that the vast majority of people who do what you do are totally full of shit. Here’s a chance to prove that you’re not one of them.
I’ll wait patiently.
If you’re basing a writer’s work history in Hollywood on IMDB credits, then you don’t understand the nature of the beast in Hollywood or that many writers work on many films with no film credit. That’s just a misunderstanding on your part of how the film industry and Guild credit system works.
I do not know what you mean when you say my “reputation is well known to those in the film business” as “a cautionary tale.” You’ll have to spell out what that reputation is and who you mean when you say “those in the film business.” Does that mean the bad boys’ club that tells young writers to hit the Cineplex Odeon a few times a year and that will prepare them to write films and work in Hollywood? And bashes women in general to keep girls out of the club?
I’m tired of the bad boys’ club. I’m a teacher and a mentor. The bad boys’ club is lying to baby writers and leading them astray. Hell, you just attacked Jeanne who works tirelessly to help writers. You attacked David, who’s been a tireless and wonderful mentor and teacher since I was a baby screenwriter myself. Now you’re going after me with some dark insinuation about my work history and “reputation as a cautionary tale.” My writers are doing well. There are testimonials at the website at http://theafw.com They’re working and winning contests and getting into festivals and making movies and selling books. And yes, I make a difference. If I didn’t, teaching and mentoring wouldn’t be worth it. Teaching and mentoring is not a big paycheck. It does, however, make a big difference.
Max,
No, specifics, no examples, no substance. Just bombast and vague claims at high volume.
Thanks for proving my point for me 🙂
Why do you refer to people as “your” writers? Please name any working writer whose career you’ve started, promoted or helped.
By the way, welcome to the asshole spotlight: http://www.theafw.com/blog/geoff-latulippe-conundrum/
Yep, I’ll sit here and wait for all the testimonials from working screenwriters whose careers you’re responsible for to pour in. I’m sure in no time I’ll be positively DELUGED. Meanwhile, someone irrelevant to this industry just called me an asshole, so I guess it’s Wednesday!
Teachers are not responsible for others’ careers. The work is too hard for another person to lay claim to it. People who make it are responsible for their own careers. The did the work. Teachers help. Most likely I’ll get a lot of email and most people won’t respond. Most people don’t want to be in the sights of an internet bully. But hey, at least a few more people will know your name. Cool, huh? Meanwhile, I still haven’t heard this mythical cautionary tale you allude to.
“I’m one of the best. Three Nicholl winners have come out of my workshops. Austin Film Festival Winners, Warner Brothers winners, there’s a fucking streamline of winners coming out of my workshops. And that doesn’t even count the working writers coming out of my classes and workshops.”
Your words, taking credit for the success of other writers. Unverified claims, the implication that they achieved such heights (“Warner Brothers winners”??????) because of you. Typical carnival barker stuff.
But, as I said, I’ll sit here and wait for all the working screenwriters who owe their careers to you to flood in and make your case for you (since you seem oddly incapable of backing up your claims on your own).
She gave you a link to the testimonials on her site, which would have the specifics you keep harping for, but because you won’t click through yourself, you claim she’s just making “unverified claims”? Good grief.
The question supposedly is “are there scammers out there who do not give value to aspiring writers?” Yes. But that doesn’t mean that all who offer instruction and advice are scammers. As Jeanne said in her article, an aspiring writer might get one valuable guidepost from some instructor that makes a world of difference to their writing. Not all instruction or even “consulting” (when paid for) is a scam.
And I’ve got to say, seriously? Anyone who puts himself forward on his own website as a “mediocre screenwriter” isn’t winning any prizes for convincing me he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to writing and consulting.
There are plenty of people in the Hollywood community who may not have made an option, sale, or seen their work make it to the screen, who are even so very adept at story analysis and exposition. A produced credit doesn’t tell the whole story of any writer’s ability. And given the amount of crappy writing that does make it onto screens at times, even having a produced credit isn’t necessarily a glowing affirmation of wisdom and ability.
For the benefit of my readers, I’m going to cut and paste from the bio on your own website:
“A visit to Southern California for a literary conference brought the revelation that Los Angeles felt like home. Shortly thereafter, I moved to Los Angeles. During the settling-in period, I worked at the LA County Law Library. But eventually, I got the ideal job for a writer who wasn’t making money (yet) from writing – working on the staff of the game show Jeopardy!
Concurrent with that time in Jeopardy!, I spent several years as an editor, artist, and article contributor to the quarterly journal Mythlore. That volunteer activity helped prepare me to be the editor of the first issue of the Shooting Star Comics Anthology. These experiences have made me appreciate the work that editors do, but it is not actually the profession I want to pursue.”
So now aspiring screenwriters have the choice: they can heed advice of a working screenwriter with 11 years experience in studio development who’s offering them knowledge for free in his spare time – not only of his own experience but that of countless peers – or they can abide by some Random Nobody from the Internet whose entire block of experience is having worked on the “staff” of JEOPARDY! umpteen years ago and who wants to charge them for wisdom she can’t possibly claim to have. I’ll leave it up to them.
Frankly, I couldn’t possibly care less what you think of me. Anything you have to say on the matter of screenwriting is a cosmic fucking joke.
Oh, wow. I’m so thrilled you actually tracked down my main website to quote from my (humorously written) bio. I didn’t realize I was supposed to be name-dropping in it. But if you had looked further on the website, you would have noted I have quite contentedly posted my out-of-date TV specs for anyone to read and evaluate (and nobody’s come back to me saying they are crap, by the way). I have two published books available, on top of my Master’s degree in English literature. Concurrent with my years at Jeopardy! (the exclamation point is part of the trademark) I have been a part of a long-established professional screenwriters group, the members of which have had a number of produced films and some notable options. I know you’re going to whine about “proof” but I see no reason to drag my friends into your clueless ranting.
But I really can’t imagine how you think you know anything about me, let alone that I have “wisdom I can’t possibly claim to have”. Dude, do you realize how dense you sound?
As for my observations about screenwriting and/or storytelling being a “cosmic fucking joke” – hey, I actually DO get paid for my writing and my consulting and editing, so your disdain is very amusing.
Sarah,
You’re totally full of shit. But thanks for plodding back through.
My favorite thing about this experience? The “Jeanne V” & “Max” supporters possess the vocabulary of a drunk & divorced ESL teacher – while the writers on Geoff’s side sound like … people who write for a living.
Nail. Hammer. Head. But watch out, Geoff, Ms Adams will now push, beg and intimidate her little sycophants to tout her importance and credibility to the world. Eh, any antic to drum up business because business is bad. If your rent relies on subpar, antiquated online courses in screenwriting, then you do what you have to. You also attribute your lack of success in the industry on things like “boy’s club,” because let’s be realistic, there are no successful female writers in the industry. Her claims to other writer’s success is sad and funny at the same time.
What makes me really sad is the bitter claim of “boys’ club” from someone who washed out of the industry of their own volition. It’s a disgusting appropriation of the very real issues women writers face in pursuit of a career in an industry still cloaked by a systemic patriarchy. But people like this are just throwing haymakers with little concern for anyone else.
Also, to wit: as yet only one “writer” has stopped by to back Max, and he’s offered no specifics as to how successful he’s been since. Still waiting to hear from a working writer who will advocate on her behalf as a “teacher”.
Why do you refer to people as “your” writers? Please name any working writer whose career you’ve started, promoted or helped.
Hi Geoff,
I appreciate your passion and agree with your message. Since you commented a bit on Jeanne’s projects, can you talk a bit more about what you’ve worked on, outside of Going the Distance and Breathers?
We always hear about projects that working screenwriters have sold in the trades. But never ones they went out with or pitched that didn’t get bought. I’m almost more interested in what didn’t get bought to see what studios aren’t interested in and why.
Kind of a weird question, but if you can talk about projects you’ve worked on that haven’t gone forward and why, I would be very thankful. Keep fighting the good fight — and watching car chases. Cheers, Hans
You bet! On some of the projects, I can speak specifically; on others, I will defer to the studios/producers and not speak in details.
–GOING THE DISTANCE was the first script I ever “went out with” – not the first I attempted, but the first I ever took seriously and showed to more than four people.
–Shortly after GOING THE DISTANCE sold, I sold a pitch to another major studio about a ten-year high school reunion (I had just gone to mine, in fact, at the time). Soon after I began writing that, the exec who bought it left the studio and it ended up in the hands of a couple other execs, for whom I did a few rewrites. Ultimately it never went forward and was later killed for good by a totally different ten-year reunion project. This kind of thing happens a lot – disappointing, but that’s just how it goes.
–Later, I sold a comedy about a divorce and how it affects a family with adult children to another major studio. Interestingly, this was not long after the movie ACOD sold, which plays with similar themes but is a completely different story (also, you should see that movie, it’s terrific). Still hope to breathe life into this one someday, but I’ll admit I never quite locked into the story the way I wanted to tell it. I feel like getting older will provide some insight.
–I pitched and sold an adaptation of the novel BREATHERS to Fox Searchlight; we developed this for a couple years and went through another exec shuffle in the middle of doing drafts, but were beaten to market by another film, WARM BODIES, that, again, was a different story but had similar themes (also a great movie I highly recommend checking out). This one’s on the back burner for now, but we are looking at ways to re-adapt the story with some different themes and a new direction that I actually quite like.
–I pitched and sold a St. Patrick’s Day movie to Paramount Insurge, which was recently folded back into Big Paramount. Unfortunately this one died after a few drafts, but I’m hoping, again, it’s something we can revive at some point.
–I am currently working on a feature with a major studio and a large production company that is set in the world of music. Hopefully it’ll be announced soon.
-Years ago I sold a pitch to independent producers about a father and son coming together after a death in the family. After a draft (or two?), we couldn’t agree on which direction to take the story and I left the project. Not sure the status of it currently.
–I’ve worked, in varying ways, on several studio rewrites. Among those to which I made very small contributions over the years were A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET and HOT TUB TIME MACHINE.
–I’ve participated in enough roundtables that I can’t even count them anymore, and they’re some of the most fun things to do as a writer, because you get to sit around with other writers who are so much better than you and (hopefully) make good scripts great. Among the ones that have been produced were GHOSTS OF GIRLFRIENDS PAST (that one was special to me because it was my first), HAROLD AND KUMAR 3D, HOT TUB TIME MACHINE, HORRIBLE BOSSES, one of the SCARY MOVIEs, and a bunch of others that never were produced or haven’t been yet, including a few indie films.
I’m sure there’s a few things I’m missing here and there, but that’s a pretty comprehensive list. Since GOING THE DISTANCE I haven’t had anything even CLOSE to being produced, but I’ve been lucky enough to be able to work consistently. I’m currently in the middle of another two pitches, two specs, and possibly, finally breaking into TV with a pilot and a pitch. Any one of those drops – or another opportunity comes along – and I get running all over again 🙂
Hope this answers your question in some way. As I’ve said many times, I’m pretty low on the totem pole – there are many, many, MANY writers out there who have been far more productive and who are far more in demand. I’m still learning and finding my way.
Thanks for the answer! Interesting to see how timing plays such a crucial part in what moves forward and what doesn’t.
Re: Hot Tub Time Machine… I really liked the original spec draft. It’s interesting that they brought in a certain other writing team to re-write that, only to go back to the original writer for the sequel. That original spec was a jem (particularly a joke about how a strip club had been turned into a PinkBerry at the ski resort)
Geoff is the real deal. It’s unfortunate his opinions and tweets often paint him as a arrogant blowhard, and I know a few pro writers’ who do actually feel the same way. At least he’s nowhere near as bad as Mazin. But I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that Geoff’s delivery is an acquired taste. You either get him or you don’t. One thing I do know, is that his twitter/blog rants come from a genuine place. He actually does give a shit about writers’ being ripped off. And he’s not saying ALL script consultants are con artists. But most are.
Max Adams – well, where to begin. She’s a rampant alcoholic for starters, and often has blackouts where she attacks others verbally, and in some instance physically. I know a few female writers’ who despise her very being for the way she has treated them in the past. And yes, her business is dramatically taken a turn for the worst. Class attendance is way down, so she’s poaching for new clients – ie; baby writers.
“It’s unfortunate his opinions and tweets often paint him as a arrogant blowhard, and I know a few pro writers’ who do actually feel the same way. At least he’s nowhere near as bad as Mazin. But I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that Geoff’s delivery is an acquired taste. You either get him or you don’t. One thing I do know, is that his twitter/blog rants come from a genuine place. He actually does give a shit about writers’ being ripped off. And he’s not saying ALL script consultants are con artists. But most are.”
I resemble this remark.
You call it “unfortunate”, I call it “message delivery that works”. I’m not so concerned what people think of me personally. I just want writers to get the information. If they get it and are willing to consider it because of the blunt way in which it’s presented, but think I’m a total cunt for the way I provide it? Works for me. You’re absolutely correct – MANY writers, pro and aspiring alike, can’t stand me. But this isn’t a popularity contest, and too few pro writers speak honestly and directly about issues we face and the roadblocks of this industry. That’s why I’m here. Take it or leave it.
That’s one hell of a resume. This is the kind of stuff people don’t know. You’re still building a career. Keep going.
Case and point. http://www.bluecatscreenplay.com/script-consultant/
You mean I get all that for the low price of $400? {sigh}
Jeanne Bowerman has created a Temple Grandin style death trap for novice & naive writers. Only her argument is that cows have free will – and maybe death will get them closer to God?
There is a Sarah Palin element to her personality. Lots of extreme personality. Yet her quest for leadership has a sad resume – that gets sadder the more digging you do.
Let’s look at the “Unprofessionals”. August and Mazin.
They started their editorials AFTER having years of experience in getting projects Greenlit. They have a CULT… like following for selling tickets, VOD, breaking box office records, and winning Academy Awards.
Now on to the “Professionals” aka Jeanne V and UnkScreenwriter ( do a Twitter Audit and see how many fake accounts both have).
Jeanne V talks about “Haters” and “Fans” despite never having anything set up or professionally shopped around. She creates Memes of her own quotes. My 13 year old niece does that.
In ten years her ONLY project to get made was a short film that’s taken 3 years to complete. To my knowledge ( Google) it hasn’t appeared in any festivals. It doesn’t even have a trailer online. Online of work are important to development execs. It’s common sense to people who have broken into Hollywood , right?
Her ultimate argument for paying hundreds of dollars for a “professional” to read your script falls on her saying that she needs to hire a tutor for her children. My question is … if you need a tutor for Algebra … do you hire someone who has passed the class? Or do you hire someone who says that the people who passed Algebra are “haters” that has made a living off of talking about the inside dirt on Algebra despite NEVER TAKING IT.
To me , that is capitalism + common sense.
[…] So Geoff Latulippe just […]
Mr. Latulippe-
Terry Rossio would vouch for Max Adams. He’s a legit industry pro. As is David Trottier. As is Eric Red. As is Jeff Luhnow. All of those are people that when asked, have gone to bat for Max. And I have no doubt there are many others who have and would.
You are speaking about *my* teacher, and I am one of hundreds that she has helped become a writer with a chance at being pro. Max has taught Nicholl Award winners, Austin Film Festival winners, you name it. I don’t know of a single one of them that *doesn’t* regard Max as having been a vital teacher for them. She’s taught me more than what reading Vogler or McKee did.
Your fundamental point isn’t wrong…there are a lot of pseudo professionals offering ‘guidance’ out there in this field. Max is not among those, what Max teaches only comes from a lifetime of study. And regardless of whenever it was done, she has achieved more in this industry than what it looks you have.
I really don’t see anything lucid about what you’re posting, and if you want to try and throw shade on Max and her place in the industry, you will only wind up looking foolish in the end.
Thanks for chiming in, Jared. Couple things:
1. I would be pleased to listen to anything Eric and Terry have to say about Max. If you can find any recent endorsements from them about her, please let me know.
2. David Trottier has no credits other than an indie film produced fifteen years ago. Never heard of him. If you can explain to me how he’s relevant, I’m all ears.
3. Why would anyone care what the GM of the Astros thinks about this?
4. How did “studying” under Max help you garner literary representation?
5. How did “studying” under Max help you sell a script/scripts?
Never heard of Dave Trottier? And yet you are offering criticisms of screenwriting instructors and consultants? Dave Trottier is a major screenwriting instructor these days, but he’s done a lot in the business before that.
As for anything Terry Rossio has said about Max…. gee, can’t think of a super-duper example for you off the top of my head, but I know he commented (favorably) in a discussion in one of her FB threads just a couple of weeks ago. (Not that he has a lot of time for hob-nobbing on FB.)
“Major screenwriting instructor” isn’t a relevant thing. Sorry. If he was that good at what he did he’d still be working as a writer or a producer, not charging fledgling writers for “coaching”.
And if Terry Rossio is high on Max, so be it. He has far more experience than I do and has been far more successful in this business than I have. Aspiring screenwriters would do well to listen to anything he has to say. If he does indeed endorse Max and paying for script consultants, though, I’m going to have to strongly disagree with him.
Depends on who you are meaning to dismiss in that “script consultant” label. Because major studio execs happily pay the consulting fees of people like Linda Seger and Chris Vogler. And feel that they get their money’s worth.
Now, I’ll admit to being biased, because Linda’s a friend, and although I’ve only met and talked with him a couple of times, Chris Vogler is a colleague. Sure, they don’t generally dispense free advice (not having huge amounts of available time). But Blake Snyder was also a friend and in addition to any paid consulting and teaching he did, he would at the drop of an email answer anyone’s questions about writing no matter what he was up to (a few months before he died, he was answering emails while on a trip to China, of all things). These people aren’t/weren’t scammers. So your blanket dismissals of script consultants continue to sound blockish.
The last significant movie I can find that Linda Seger got a credit for was MR JONES…in 1993. Other than that and a couple earlier (minor) studio releases it’s a laundry list of microindies and throwaways. So spare me the “studio execs happily paying her” nonsense (you’ll notice the credit of “script consultant” has largely disappeared from recent studio films). I have no clue who Chris Vogler is, though I did find someone matching that name who has a credit for “Additional Story Materials” on THE LION KING. Truly, a heavy hitter if there ever was one. Please, regale me with stories of the studio execs that you’ve talked to that “got their money’s worth” out of either of these two anytime in the past decade.
Blake Snyder died in 2009 and his last credit was 15 years before that. So, um.
I mean, look, if you want to keep coming in here and proving my point for me, you’re more than welcome, but at some point even YOU have to realize what a sad trombone your little quest has become.
You’ve got to love the few groupies who hang on to Max Adams for dear life. A couple of months ago someone in Adams’ workshop commented on a thread (screenplay’s site) where Adams’ latest mean streak, this time aimed at good ol’ Bill Martell, was topic of discussion. That got interesting fast. Apparently Adams likes to dis industry professionals in the privacy of her workshop. People like the Coen bros (who she claims she worked with), Franklin Leonard, AFF and Julie Gray. Adams told someone in the workshop if he took Julie Gray’s advice, or even mention Julie Gray to her, she’d kick him out and break all contact. Leadership in the workshop was equated to Nazi Germany, as she expects everyone to grovel and obey, and the rules are enforced with rants and threats if anyone should step out of line. Adams told the group that one of them should join Tracking Board so they only have to pay one fee to share the screenplays from TB with the other 25 in the group. Bad advise to give rookie writers especially since she’s in a “profession” where her own livelihood relies on fees for services rendered.
Well, I obviously can’t vouch for the veracity of any of that, but I think it’s telling that she put out the call to all her acolytes on like four different websites to come into the comments here and sing her praises and so far, in almost three days, one guy has popped in, talked shit, been asked a couple specific questions, and disappeared.
I lack surprise.
Geoff,
I don’t think that you and I read the same article. You seem to have taken the tone of the article in a context that I did not perceive, at all. You seem to have cherry-picked a few sentences here and there and have taken a completely different meaning from them than I did.
Perhaps you were aware of the incident she mentioned or maybe you were just in a piss poor mood. In any case, my take away from your article is “WELL I AM A DRUNK LOUD TROLL”.
Have a nice day.
Thanks for letting me know! Please circle back when a script “consultant” has helped you sell a spec and rub it in my face!
Geoff,
One of your points was that the way she used the words “a writer’s process”. Her exact quote was: “I would never tell another writer they were right or wrong when it comes to their process or screenwriting books they read or resources they use. It is their process. Their journey.”
Nowhere in this article does she say GO FORTH AND PAY A SCREENWRITING CONSULTANT.
The closest she comes is this: “Can you learn about writing without spending money? Absolutely! But that doesn’t mean every writer can learn without help. Don’t judge those who want to educate themselves in a more traditional way. We would all love to have a small network of writers who know the craft well enough to help elevate our work. But the world isn’t perfect. So to that end? Some writers are always going to benefit from hiring a consultant or reading a book.” (emphasis mine)
What I took as the point of the article, was to not blindly follow screenwriting advice from any source. Which is good advice.
You assume too much in your reply to me. I am not a screenwriter and am not interested in rubbing anything into your face. You obviously are very passionate about this subject and make some good points. My reply was to point out that your post seemed to have very little to do with the actual content (or in my opinion, the context) of the article you were railing against.
Teresa
So you make it a habit to wade into discussions about topics you don’t care about and have no interest in? And I’m supposed to take you seriously because…????
I stand by what I said. If that’s not good enough for you then I suppose I’ll just have to strive every day for the rest of my life to learn how to live with such a reality.
Once again you assume too much. This is a subject that I care about and have interest in. I am not a screenwriter currently, but that doesn’t mean that I can have no interest or an opinion on this subject. I wrote for several years.
My partner is a writer and I know a lot of screenwriters, both professionals and amateurs. I don’t even disagree with most of your points.
Maybe you just don’t actually read what people write? That would explain your replies to my disagreement with parts of your article. Do you really just skim and cherry pick something to be pissed off about? In any case, enjoy your reality, such as it is.
Thanks for the update. I was on pins and needles.
I meant Jeff Lowell, not Luhnow. I had written something about the Astros GM previously and didn’t catch it on this post.
Auto-correct, I do hate you.
That makes more sense. And no worries – happens to me basically daily, though I can’t blame auto-correct. I’m just dumb.
Interesting thread. My brother in law worked at CAA as lead assistant to one of the partners. He read thousands of scripts during that time. (heads another company at this time). I asked him about you listing the New Line Cinema reading job as any kind of qualification as an expert in screenwriting. He laughed. Loud and long. All I see is a third tier writer pontificating hoping to convince himself he actually has some worth.
Guess it’s kind of a good thing, from where I’m sitting, that I’m not the least bit concerned with what you or your brother think of me then, eh? Thanks for stopping by 😉
I didn’t think you would be. People like you never are. You never mentioned the “free” way of learning writing. What is this “free” way? College? Sorry, but that is quite expensive. A book? Name a screenwriter with any notable success whose only source of knowing how to write a script was a book. Getting a job as a reader?? Considering the low pay compared to what most readers could be making otherwise, I’d say that’s expensive. So, tell me these writers who learned screenwriting for free and then had more than one script produced.
Also, my brother in law asked Kevin Huvane if he’d ever heard of you. “Who?” Can’t say I was surprised.
Mike,
I needn’t waste my time explaining anything to some irrelevant keyboard warrior. And there’s absolutely no reason Kevin Huvane would know who I was, whether the in-law you’ve oddly fabricated out of thin air asked him or not.
You actually never explained any of those points to any of your readers. You owe it to your readers, not me. Otherwise, your post is meaningless. You have challenged others to give specifics, but can’t yourself. But, it is your site, so you can create whatever fantasy world you want.
Yes, the real Kevin Huvane. If you were the journeyman player you suggest, he’d have heard of you. That’s why he was asked. But, you’re a third tier guy at best, and third tier guys like to puff themselves up. And, you’ve been doing a pretty good job of blowing yourself.
Your patronage of my website and the brother-in-law you have invented for the purposes of posting on it have made my day, Mike.
Sorry, no inventions. You can believe what you want. Call his office and ask whoever answers if an old assistant of his called today. But glad to know something made your day. Now, maybe someday you’ll supply your readers with the names of all these writers who broke in with free help.
Also, I figure, since you’ve listened to thousands of songs on the radio, you must be a song writing expert too.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, Pretend Brother-in-Law Guy from Atlanta is daring me! I’ll tell you what, Mike, I have NO IDEA how I’m going to move forward in my life knowing that a bitter, failed writer or “script consultant” (hard to tell with your lot) is challenging me to regurgitate information I’ve already offered a hundred times in a dozen different forums, but I’m just going to have to find a way. I will think of you and your imaginary quasi-sibling often as I try everything within my power to persevere!
I knew you didn’t have the balls to call Huvane’s office. I’ll just check it off my list along with my imaginary visits to CAA. The underground garage that goes 7 stores below the old CAA building on Wilshire. With the valet office on the first floor down. The television department behind and upstairs as you get out of the garage elevator. The partner’s offices toward the far end of the triangle lobby upstairs. The three couches in front of the Roy painting. The reception desk on the north side of the lobby. The music department at the far end of the lobby from the elevator on just one floor. Screening room where Mike Myers used to come in Friday’s to watch flims. etc. etc. Such, it was all imagined. Just like your “status.” Sorry to disappoint you. As I suspected, your bluster was baloney and you can’t name one writer who learned how to write scripts for free and then went on to sell more than one. Just one. Just one.
You know a weird amount about a building that hasn’t been in use for 10 years for someone whose “brother-in-law” worked at CAA.
So you’re a failed writer with a computer that can access Google. Impressive!
K, off now to call the office of one of the busiest and most powerful agents in town to ask his over-stressed assistant, “Did the brother-in-law of some random Internet troll call to ask about me today?”
Uh, yes, my brother in law worked there from 1998 to 2006. While they were in the old building. I never said he worked there now. The principle is still the same– stupid to list a reading job as any kind of qualification for being a writing expert.
I know the detail because I was there many times over those years. And, I seriously doubt Google has any of those details. Or any other site. But, I suggest you try to confirm that for yourself. Check it with writers you know who were clients at that time. My B-I-L still has good relations with the people there. There were a number of CAA agents and management at his wedding a few years ago.
But, again, all that really doesn’t matter. It has nothing to do with you not being able to name even one person who learned how to write scripts at a professional level for free and sold more than one. I’ll be waiting.
OK, you hang out right there!
I know it will be a long wait because you don’t have it. Lots of hot air. But, nothing more than that. You third tier (or fourth) guys are a riot.
Ninth, really.
One writer who learned for free and has sold more than one feature? Easy. Quentin Tarantino. Entirely self-taught and one of the best in the business.
Now carry on, troll.
Oh, man, you’re big time.
It was Jeanne whom I first “met” back in 2009 when I joined Twitter and fund the Scripchat community. Through that weekly “meetup” I learned a great deal about screenwriting and met a few great people (as well as my fiancee) and I felt encouraged and supported as, like many others, I chased my screenwriting dream.
Through Twitter I also learned about the Script Frenzy self challenge – now sadly ended. I wrote my first full feature script, a horror tongue-through-cheek flick called Bubble-Butt. I wrote it hard and fast and finished the fucker, a major achievement in any writers career.
Again, through Twitter I learned of several companies who were seeking new scripts and submitted to them all. Focus Features took it, inviited me to London for a meeting and we spent two years developing it.
I am a fan of Tarantino, Eszterhas and Nolan and read/watched absorbed all they had to offer. I wrote dozens of scripts. I pitched three.
Bubble-Butt found a home with Causeway NY, became optioned and is now an ants butt hair away from getting the financing greenlght which means a sale.
I have no manager. No agent. I pitched via unoslicitied email and that’s where I am now. I have also PAID to pitch via Virtual Pitch Fest, ISA and a few other sites and gotten nothing but an empty wallet. I DO have two screen credits: The Rift 2012 with Vantis Pictures, and The Writer with FreezeFrame Productions, both of which were sourced through research and unsolicited pitches. Didn’t cost me a thing other than writing the piece in the first place and sending it out there.
I love Jeanne, I really do. Her enthusiasm is genuine. her desire to succeed also, but I feel she has sold out. She pushes events where you have to pay to attend/to pitch. She writes mainly on Script Mag which pushes “guru” books. What is the adage: those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach!
Jeanne teaches a lot. I don’t know what her latest script is – seems SBAN is the one and only script she has. I hate to sound so harsh about a woman A) I have never met and B) who was instrumental in so many positive changes to my life but truth hurts, right?
She has her reasons for what she does, as I do for my choices. whatever works, right? It is not my place to judge her decisions, but I do question her recent motives. Just look at #Scriptchat. No regular UK chat, guests are usually pushing PAID competitions, referrals to script consultants, or other paid services.
I’m sorry but anyone wanting to write scripts for a living needs to write scripts. Research studios who release those style of scripts. Send them out. Write more scripts ad infinitum.
Robert McKee has 1 produced script, the TV movie Abraham and yet is regarded as THE authoritative voice on screenwriting. Why? I have more screen credits than he does, does that make me a screenwriting guru? Course the fuck not!
But I don’t claim to be.
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. Or write about it.
That’s my two penneth.
Cheers
JP